Has anyone had their Apolipoprotein B Blood Test taken after taking rapamycin for an extended period?
“apoB was more closely related to the risk reduction in statin trials than changes in non‐HDL‐C or LDL‐C.”
This is an extensive meta-analysis pointed out by Gil Carvalho MD PhD:
Out of 620 replies to my initial post , I’ve probably said this 100 times, lipids are just one risk factor among many!
With your level of fitness and a CAC of zero, you’re in the upper 95% of cardiovascular health among men.
And again, don’t forget, statins aren’t the only solution to elevated lipids. I’m experimenting with citrus bergamot, oatmeal, flax ,taurine and lycopene, even though my lipids are only modestly elevated on rapamycin.
I still believe that rapamycin is overall cardio protective despite the lipids.
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My personal physician put me on TRT 3 years ago - no issue… but was a bit apprehensive about my taking Rapamycin/Sirolimus. He agreed to the prescription provided I do a full blood work screening - and consult with him on it - every 3 months. I started taking Rapamycin/Sirolimus in August 2020.
After my first full year of blood work (4 meetings) with consistent great results - except cholesterol (he always marked it on my blood work as problematic). His attitude was - seriously we don’t need to do this so often - but… I still like to do the blood work every 3 months as it is covered by my Cigna health insurance.
We last visited in April 2022 which was before my Coronary Calcium Scan. Actually, when we met and I told him I wanted to have that test…, I found out he decided to have one too from his nurse who schedule my screening with the same hospital. He struggles with his weight… I have known him 20 years since he was a medical student, so it probably is a HIPPA violation by his nurse for sharing - lol. But, we are friends - so no biggie. I am curious to ask about his scan results and discuss my high LDL-C and overall cholesterol - which doesn’t seem to be an atherosclerosis issue.
Also, I received my Glycan Age results (biologically 37 years) after that visit too. So we have a lot to cover… my full blood report, coronary scan and glycans! He is fascinated by my results of TRT and Rapamycin. I am his favorite patient as I add interest instead of just deteriorating.
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MAC
#632
So the TRT was his idea or yours?
A very supportive physician, that’s just amazing…but you are driving the bus.
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First time we met… after a blood draw… he looked at my testosterone numbers in my blood work – about 350 low end of normal. I asked if we could get that up some? He said no issue (you want topical, injection or pills put in your gluts - they are good for 3 months). I went for injection.
He said we will get you on the upper end of normal like everything else Vitamin D, B-12 - etc… He is so easy to work with - especially after such great results in muscle tone, loss of visceral fat, blood numbers. He sees my TRT and rapamycin combo as health and life changing for me.
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tongMD
#634
Struggles with weight as in obese habitus or overweight + 1 risk factor?
There’s near “bariatric surgery” equivalent results near approval with limited side effects - most physicians may not be aware:
(this drug is already FDA approved for diabetes btw - I’m sure anyone can get it offlabel right now for weight loss - especially obesity but maybe overweight)
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MAC
#635
And he’s a regular primary care doc? Upper end of normal, ergo, optimal…that’s normally Functional Medicine Doctor talk? My doc is an FMD, he’s about not keeping me normal, but making me “optimal”. Your doc is a keeper!
Btw, can I ask how much Vitamin D you take?
I just had a DEXA scan…my bone mineral density is through the roof for a 57 yr old. The tech looked at me and said “are you exercising and taking a lot of Vitamin D”. I smiled. I was also < 5 percentile for body fat for my age.
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He prescribed the MAXIMUM D3 13,000 IU PHARMACEUTICAL QUALITY CHOLECALCIFEROL 0.25mg FOR VITAMIN D
Link: Maxiumum D3-- Vitamin D3 13,000 IU -5 caps
I take the Vitamin D pill once a week with my 1ml shot and 1 mg of Anastrozole.
MAC
#637
Maybe we should take this to Vitamin D thread…
Happen to know your last Vitamin D level?
Have you ever had a DEXA…would be very cheap and additional tracking biomarker (muscle, fat, bone mineral density). The scale and mirror can only tell you so much.
My last vitamin D level in April 2022 was 78.6 - should have new number on Monday with everything else.
Hmmm. DEXA scan - something new to ask for when we meet in one week. Definitely want to know bone strength/density.
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MAC
#639
What are units ng/mL? I would hope, nmol/L would be way too low. My last test was 91 ng/mL and I take 6,000 IU/day.
I should explore other Vitamin D dosing options…save me the daily taking. TY
MAC
#640
You don’t need a script for this…walk in.
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MAC
#641
No K2 taking at all? They work together, important to take with Vitamin D.
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It’s ideal to mix K2 with vitamin D but the Japanese use large doses of K2 as MK-4 to treat osteoporosis and prevent bone loss. They use 45 mg’s per day and that’s now the dose that I take.
Alternatively, you could just eat 6 prunes a day and get the fiber benefits as well.
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tongMD
#643
Any reason why not MK-7 from Natto at ~100 mcg/10 g (or curds if one can’t stand the taste)? I eat just enough natto (USDA organic) simply because I get more bang for my buck.
From my understanding, the body already converts a lot of K1 to MK-4 - so supplementation may be a waste of money for a sizable amount of people eating their leafy greens, assuming the supplement is USP grade.
Longer half-life (70 hours vs 1.5 hrs) and small doses are needed for MK-7.
Yes ng/ml .
So just 1 capsule once a week. It is transparent… half green and half yellow. Can get over the counter cheap. Mine is by prescription so it is free.
Will look at adding K2.
My B12 dropped because of Metformin.
Should be up this next time.
CTStan
#645
Assuming ALP and Vitamin D are in normal range, would it be advisable for older men to get a Bone ALP in order to detect early signs of bone loss? Are there other blood test biomarkers that should be considered for evaluating bone density risk?
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The Japanese definitely seem to prefer MK- 4. I know that my partner tried MK 7 to lower his CAC score. Nada. Very impressive response to MK 4 however.
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MAC
#648
Do you know of any proven intervention that reverses CAC? Is there even a plausible mechanistic pathway in the literature?
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tongMD
#649
Interesting - did he take a lot of leafy greens when he was on MK-7?
I’m assuming he wasn’t on anything else in the comparison?
As far as high dose MK-4 and CAC scores go in terms of human trials, I’m seeing no effect for “not deficient” - but until there is a plausible mechanism of MK-4 vs MK-7 on different places - maybe it’s just individual response or some confounder?
“Despite high dose MK-4 supplementation, CAC increased +14 % annually, but baPWV did not change (−0.7 %). The benefits of MK-4 supplementation were only observed in patients with vitamin K insufficiencies correlated with high PIVKA-2 baseline levels, reducing baPWV but not CAC.”
A few graphs:
