Do you mind sharing the med name? I’ll try to resist going the med route, but if other methods don’t pan out might have to try meds.
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Beth
#22
BLSM is taking something different that she will share, but I’ll mention that before I fixed my sleep over the past year, I would use trazadone which worked really well for me. Apparently it does not negatively affect one’s sleep architecture.
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We can’t all be rational all the time. And so I confess, I am irrational when it comes to sleep meds. I have an irrational fear of them, and refuse to take them no matter what. It’s silly and inconsistent - after all, I take a whole bunch of meds that are not fully understood (ahem, rapamycin, ahem), but somehow run from sleep meds like the devil from holy water. It’s a combination of the fact that we know astonishingly little about sleep, many sleep meds in the past had poor outcomes, and I have not seen much in clear pleiotropic benefits from any of them. The latter is key. I’m willing to take a chance on a medication as long as there are clear benefits apart from the indication. But sleep meds? Poor understanding of sleep and no clear long term suggestions of other benefits? Pass. Not rational, but here we are.
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blsm
#24
It’s actually a TCA and an older med (released in 1969) called Doxepin. I take 6 mg.
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@blsm @Beth thank you. Will probably source them from India (my next order) and keep it in case I decide to use them. Still on the @CronosTempi camp with sleep meds as well as antidepressant ones. Kind of scared about being dependent on them. Will see if my Cialis before bed will keep doing the trick for me.
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blsm
#26
I completely understand! I resisted taking meds for over a decade. I’d absolutely love to not need anything. My dad has poor sleep like mine so it could be partially hereditary. He’s retired so it’s not a big deal if he’s up for hours in the middle of the night.
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Nlo
#27
Sleep is such an interesting, sometimes loaded topic, since we all need to sleep and all have a unique relationship and personal ideas about it. I’ve had some really good changes/improvements with my sleep recently, which I hope will remain steady as I begin a new job. I also hope that I don’t jinx myself by writing about them! I’ve written about what I take elsewhere, so I’ll just add two things that I have found very interesting or helpful.
Interesting, is a small study that found Suvorexant to decrease tau proteins in the brain (I think after two days of use) so they will be looking at those meds in relation to dementia.
Helpful, is a book someone recommended (Reddit maybe?) that takes a different approach to sleep and insomnia than all the sleep hygiene books and usual recommendations. It really shifted my perspective and thinking about sleep. The book is called Set It & Forget It. It might be a good, quick read for overachievers, perfectionists or health anxious folks who have been trying hard for years to sleep better, but haven’t had success.
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I have also taken trazodone and it works very well for me. It is an old time tricyclic antidepressant and I have heard that unlike medication specifically for sleep which can actually fragment your sleep trazodone helps put you into a deep sleep. I only take 12 to 25 mg - usedas an anti-depressant people go up to 300 mg. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea years ago and couldn’t tolerate the CPAP or the mouthguard and I’m currently listening to a doctor Dylan Petkas who cured his with breathing and myofacial exercises - even if you don’t have sleep apnea you might be interested in his breathing exercises. Good luck finding something that works for you.
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blsm
#29
Thank you for the book recommendation! I readily admit to being a bit health anxious. I truly appreciate you sharing even at the risk of jinxing yourself.
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blsm
#30
Yes, it’s the same with my med. Apparently people go up into the 100’s of milligrams when taking it for anxiety. I can’t imagine. I certainly wouldn’t be anxious about anything because I’d be completely knocked flat! 
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blsm
#31
Suvorexant was my first choice but it was a bit too expensive and not covered by my insurance unfortunately. Perhaps one day… I had heard on a podcast that it protected lean mass which seems quite desirable in aging.
I’m not sure of the quality of this article and they only looked at 14 young men but it mentions decreased protein catabolism.
https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(24)01437-8
I worry about sleep meds (apart from melatonin) because of their potential effects on so many things including endogenous melatonin production.
In the end, however, I am now happy with my sleep. I measure success by not being tired during the day. I take a lot of melatonin, but that is for its other effects although I use it in a way to sleep well as well.
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blsm
#33
@John_Hemming, I’d definitely love to get off the meds. I avoided them for 10 years and finally caved about 6 months ago because I got tired (not enough to sleep hahaha) of struggling.
I’ve been on a little bit of a rabbit trail looking at the author’s website and YouTube channel and I’m really impressed. It gives me hope. Thank you.
I thought this was interesting from a free pdf offered on his The Sleep Coach School website.
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Nlo
#34
I really hope it helps you. It’s an easy reader and I breezed through it, absorbing the message but not actually doing any suggested steps, except for getting up at the relatively same time each day. Nonetheless, it has made a big difference in how I think about my sleep. Case in point, last night I was out with friends a tad later than usual, drank a White Russian, scrolled for 20 minutes on my phone and then got a great night’s sleep with no wake ups and no trips to the bathroom. Just a few months ago, I would have worried about the impact of staying up late, blue light, drinking alcohol, ingesting coffee liquor, and been concerned about total hours of sleep. All that stress and diligent health managing would have undoubtedly led to less enjoyment, more stress and had me up multiple times to go to the bathroom. I know this is just an anecdote, and I attribute a ton to melatonin, but my thinking about sleep has changed for the better as a result of that book.
What is very obviously the case is that worrying causes people to switch into the sympathetic state which keeps people awake (until they get a lot more tired).
Hence worrying about not sleeping can keep you awake.
Also the body needs melatonin and getting too little cause problems.
I had problems from not sleeping well for perhaps 15 years and am now in a state where generally I get enough sleep to not be tired during the day. Rather than needing a nap at say 2pm I can just keep active all day.
I do go to bed early, but that is to enable me to get up early and also get what I consider enough sleep (which is 6 hours measured by fitbit, not as continuous sleep).
I do use orange glasses if I am doing to look at my phone before going to sleep. I have massively reduced my alcohol intake recently, but I was able to sleep adequately when binge drinking.
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blsm
#36
Thanks @Nlo and @John_Hemming, I so appreciate you both sharing your personal experience! I do believe worrying about sleep has been a huge part of the problem for me. Ironically the night after I posted this thread I had the worst sleep I’ve had in a long time because I was starting to stress about being on call. Recently I started breaking my own self imposed rules around sleep like watching tv (without blue blockers) before bed and it made absolutely no difference. I can look back and see where my stress (and fear) about sleep and efforts to control things have definitely backfired!
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This is where meditation/breathing exercises can help. It can focus you on something that is not a threat.
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Meditation/breathing exercises may help people fall asleep but doubt they would do anything for those that have problems staying asleep. I have meditated and done breathing plenty at 2AM when I wake up but no help with falling back asleep. Melatonin 20-60mg did the trick for a while but I think my body got used to it and now doesn’t always work, its more hit and miss. the only good thing with melatonin is the fact I don’t feel tired on 5-6 hours of sleep. I’d barely be able to stay awake at work on that much sleep (pre melatonin days)
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I agree that melatonin can assist with coping with low sleep, but if you time things with ultradian cycles it is easier.
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blsm
#40
Well last night was quite amazing. After being inspired by the author of Set It and Forget It I decided to see how things would go if I skipped my Doxepin.
It just shows the power of the mind imo. It was definitely the first time in over 8 years I didn’t take anything but my usual melatonin. Before the Doxepin I was taking unisom (doxylamine version) every single night. I highly doubt I’ll ever stop melatonin.
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