#1

Hey,
Been tracking blood tests for 18 years, and never have been flagged for an out of range on a lipid/cardiovascular assessment blood test. Never been prescribed a medicine for cardiovascular health.
My blood tests have been all in range for the most part except thyroid(tsh) which I take synthroid for over 4 years now.
Was able to try atorvastatin/lipitor this past year. First time tried it, did not feel so great @ 40mg.
Dropped it for many months.
Kept reading so many good things about statins. Decided to do 20mg a few times, and had better success.
Did a 7 day trial of 20mg a day recently. Not much to report with negatives. Maybe felt weaker on 1 day but not sure if it was because I was reading some stuff on coq10 issues with statins, or had a bad sleep the night before.
But overall felt a better sense of wellbeing overall by at least a few % points.
Felt like my heart area was feeling better. Hard to describe the feeling. Maybe like less inflammation, lighter heart feeling if that makes sense.
Anyone have any ideas about this and/or what it might be doing?
Not sure if I might have some something worth checking out on a test? Aorta issue?
Was thinking of getting some type of imaging test to see if all is ok: mri or ct scan of some type perhaps.

Never had the type of “feel” from anything else that I can compare to a statin.
Flush niacin, nsaid’s, meldonium, carnitine, ace inhibitor, arb, viagra, cialis, beta agonist, coq10, garlic etc.
I am open to hearing ideas for other cardio or such medicines that can have benefits/recommendations for overall health and wellbing.

I do take 2.5mg - 5mg cialis a day. Along with various health supplements.
Was thinking of trialing a calcium channel blocker for 7 days to compare. Not sure.
Thanks :pill:

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#2

You may want to try 5 mg Atorvastatin (you can cut the pills). It will reduce side effects and yet still provide the majority of effectiveness. Alternatively, you can try Bempedoic Acid + Ezetemibe from India which provides reductions in inflammation and lipids with almost no side effects.

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#3

Good to hear about that stuff. I have 40mg Atorvastatin pills that I cut down to 20mg. The tablet would probably crumble too much to get 5mg precise dose. Would probably try to get 10mg tablet and cut that in half to 5mg.
I’ve never tried those: Bempedoic acid + ezetemibe. Will read up on those.
Thanks! :pill:

#4

You could do a CAC, (coronary artery calcium) scan. This would tell you if you have a problem with plaque. They’re usually under $100.

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#5

@Ambient usually doctors start by testing liver enzymes, standard heart panel (LDL… if possible apoB). Then initiate statin treatment at lowest dose, usually 10 mg atorvastatin if that doesn’t work 5 mg rosuvastatin. Then 6 weeks later test liver enzymes and such again IIRC.

CAC shouldn’t really change your decision making… according to Peter Attia / Allan Sniderman et al.

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#6

If your cholesterol and lipids are in-range, and you don’t have signs of CVD, then from your doctors POV you won’t benefit from a statin.

If your goal is to lower your LDL to a level you consider more optimal, then 20mg seems like way too much - and Statins do come with side effects. Try 5mg.

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#7

@Ambient, In the Cardiovascular health topic and in another specific thread minidoses of statins and ezetimibe have been described. Various official data have been provided that show a lowering effect on lipids even in doses which constitute 20% or less of the minimum proposed dosage.

I’m in the same condition as yours, optimal lipid panel but wanting to lower the cumulative lifetime risk of atherosclerosis, in a few words planning to hit my 80s, 90s and possibly 100s without a substantial risk.

I began a few days ago by taking 1.25 mg Crestor (25% of the minimum dosage) and 1.25 mg Ezetimibe each day (12.5% of the minimum dosage). I cut a Crestor circular pill in quarters and a circular pill of Rosumibe 5/10 in quarters. I take 1/4 crestor one day, 1/4 rosumibe the other day.

According to literature, the above minidoses will statistically provide decrease of LDL-C while at the same time will likely decrease the probability of side effects.

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#8

Placebo effect and you are reading way too much into this.

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#9

This is smart. Start as low as possible in dose. Increase or add other mechanisms as necessary. Any reason to not take the same chemicals every day…tolerance avoidance?

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#10

Actually, I’m taking rosuvastatin every day, 1.25 mg; one day as a 1/4 pill of 5 mg Crestor, the other day as a 1/4 pill of Rosumibe, which contains 5 mg rosuvastatine plus 10 mg ezetimibe.
The reason I take Rosumibe every other day is that the minimum ezetimibe dose in commerce is 10 mg per pill and I planned to start with 1.25 average daily dose.

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#11

A prominent doctor I know had a major heart attack and his CAC score was zero. He had no calcified plaque but apparently had soft plaque. I would see if a doctor will order a CTA CLEERLY test (a CT angiogram analyzed using AI). That will show any soft plaque and where it’s located.

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#12

Please remember that a CAC score of zero is pretty meaningless in younger people, as most people younger than 60 have a zero CAC score, and as you say, can have a lot of soft plaque. How old was your doctor friend? Above 70 or so, CAC of zero means a lot more, and also it’s less likely that a 75 year old has a lot of soft plaque, but zero calcified plaque.

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#13

This particular doctor is in his mid 70’s.

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#14

That’s surprising. Not that he died of a sudden cardiac event - after all, you can die from atrial fibrillation or other causes which might not be related to atherosclerosis. But that he died of an obstruction. If you have zero calcified plaque in your 70’s, it’s unlucky to have extensive and dangerous plaque, but all of it soft.

Of course, it’s entirely possible. However, to my mind, that’s a very strong argument in favor of being on statins into your old age. Because one way in which statins work, is to calcify the plaque, thus rendering it more stable and less likely to rupture and cause an event. Statins turn soft dangerous plaque into calcified stable plaque (and even regress it at high dosages?), which is why people put on statins sometimes see their CAC score go up - of course if you have no soft plaque to calcify, that particular statin effect is not going to show up on a CAC scan.

So what would be really shocking is if you said “yeah, zero CAC score in his 70’s, and on statins for 20 years, and still died from ruptured plaque!”

I have a zero CAC score at 65, on a low dose statin (10mg/day atorvastatin), and agree that an angio scan for soft plaque is a good idea.

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#15

I’m on 5mg Rosuvastatin and 10mg ezetimibe. This combo dropped my LDL from around 100 to 30 and ApoB from 85 to 45. I take it for prevention.

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#16

For clarity, he did not die. They got him to the Cath lab in time and he is fine and still practicing medicine.

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#17
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#18

That study is interesting but was funded by Astrazeneca, with just a tiny sliver of conflict of interests…

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#19

It seems that the AstraZeneca patent on Crestor / Rosuvastatin expired in 2016. Would there be much motivation for any skewing of the data given this?

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#20

Not directly, I concur, although the article may be viewed for example as a strategy to boost the sales of pharmaceutical drugs in general rather than supplements, in an attempt to enunciate a powerful statement about the superiority of big pharma upon much lesser natural remedies.

Of course, I’m not thinking exactly the above, there are some good points in that article but I can say that it has caused some controversy and different points of view should be considered.

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