#1

A new category of supplements to keep an eye on:

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#2

Tirgonelline content of some food items

mcg/g
coffee 2200
chick peas 350
pea 280
lentils 250
rolled oats 230
alfalfa sprouts 181
snow pea sprouts 160

Minute 4:20

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#3

Dry powdered wild fenugreek seeds can contain up to 12% of trigonelline

Source: Multivariate analysis of seed chemical diversity among wild fenugreek (Trigonella monantha C. A. Mey.) ecotypes | BMC Plant Biology | Full Text

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#4

How many mg or grams per day. (PS 1kg Fenugreek powder in shopping basket ready to go :blush:)

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#5

Give me time to poke around. But Vincenzo Sorrentino has applied for a patent for a trigonelline supplement.

CLAIMS The invention is claimed as follows:

  1. A composition consisting essentially of trigonelline or consisting of trigonelline.

  2. The composition of Claim 1, wherein the composition is formulated for enteral administration.

  3. The composition of Claim 1 or 2, wherein the composition is selected from the group consisting of a food product, a food supplement, an oral nutritional supplement (ONS), a medical food, and combinations thereof.

  4. The composition according to any one of preceding claims, wherein at least a portion of trigonelline is isolated.

  5. The composition according to any one of preceding claims, wherein at least a portion of trigonelline is provided by a plant or algae extract in the composition.

  6. The composition according to any one of preceding claims, wherein at least a portion of trigonelline is provided by a trigonelline-enriched plant or algae extract in the composition.

  7. The composition according to any one of preceding claims, wherein the trigonelline is selected from an extract of coffee, fenugreek or algae.

  8. The composition according to any one of preceding claims, wherein trigonelline is selected from an extract of fenugreek which contains at least about 25% - 50% trigonelline.

  9. The Composition according to any one of preceding claims, wherein trigonelline is chemically synthesized and which contains at least about 90% trigonelline.

  10. A method for increasing intracellular nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) in a mammal, the method comprising administering a composition consisting essentially of trigonelline or consisting of trigonelline to the mammal in an amount effective to increase NAD+ biosynthesis in one or more cells of the mammal.

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#6

Thats actually a good sign
 if the guy is going through the hassle and cost of of filing a patent (I vaguely recall that the cost is typically around $5K working with IP lawyers in the US for a basic patent), it means he thinks it is worth the investment in time and money.

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#7

Lustgarten took 42 grams of chickpeas prior to his 1/14/24 minute 2:45. That is about 147 mcg (.42 of 350 mcg).

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#8

Unfortunately, you are probably not going to get a large enough dose of trigonelline from a Fenugreek supplement. One Fenugreek extract supplement on Amazon claims to have 2.5% trigonelline in each 500mg. capsule. That would amount to ~12.5 mg. per capsule.

I have tried Fenugreek in the past with no discernible result in lowering blood glucose.
I don’t know how much you would have to take to get the other claimed benefits.

The lowest effect dose in rat studies that I could find was 50mg/kilogram. This would amount to ~ 3.5 grams of trigonelline for a human equivalent dose in a 70 Kg man.

“Overall, the animal research indicates that trigonelline doses of 50-100 mg/kg appear effective at lowering blood glucose in diabetic rodent models.”

Human Equivalent Dose (mg/kg) = Animal dose (mg/kg) x (Animal Km / Human Km)^0.33
Where Km is a correction factor based on body surface area. For a rat, Km is 6, and for a human, Km is 37

Don’t necessarily trust my math. I am old.

Experimental diabetes treated with
trigonelline: effect on b cell and pancreatic
oxidative parameters
https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1472-8206.2011.01022.x

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#9

Chickpeas did not move the needle. Lustgarten tried 24 g of fenugreek. Data will be available in a few weeks.

If the aim is to increase NAD, Lustgarten’s experience shows the best approach is to take 600 mg of nicotinic acid (NAD 67.4); better than 2,000 of NMN (NAD 61.0).

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#10

So at roughly 10% content, then 30 grams daily of fenugreek. Will try . Wish me luck :face_vomiting:

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#11

Update: tomorrow starts my experiment:

2 tablespoons of ground fenugreek seeds
2 tablespoons of chlorella
All mixed in almond milk

I have no idea how this will taste, but I think it’ll be yummy. Do I have evidence for this belief/hope? No. But I’ll let you all know if this recipe works.

Might need to add a tablespoon of manaku honey.

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#12

I thought he switched to 60mg since 600mg lowered his epigenetic age. He still got an NAD boost at 60, as I recall.

#13

Where’d you get the idea for chlorella? The mention of algae in the patent?

The patent actually states Laminariaceae - kelp.

SUMMARY

[004] The present disclosure provides a composition consisting essentially of trigonelline or consisting of trigonelline. In some embodiments, at least a portion of the trigonelline is provided by a plant extract in the composition, such as one or more of a coffee extract, a hemp extract, a pumpkin seed extract and/or a fenugreek seed extract, for example a plant extract enriched in trigonelline.

[005] In a preferred embodiment, at least a portion of trigonelline is provided from a fenugreek extract. [006] In some embodiments, at least a portion of the trigonelline is provided from an algae source, for example, a Laminariaceae extract.

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#14

Oh sorry for not being clear. The Chlorella is just something I bought a while ago and been trying to figure out a way to incorporate into my daily regime. The chlorella is for the spermidine content (approximately 300ppm or 0.06%). So two tablespoons (30 grams) should give me roughly 18mg of spermidine per day (I think :crossed_fingers:)

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#15

I get the spermidine from aged cheddar. It also has the C15 fat, so two birds


If I were to go vegan, I would prefer mushrooms


Applied Sciences | Free Full-Text | Content of Biogenic Amines and Physical Properties of Lacto-Fermented Button Mushrooms).

The highest content of spermidine was found in the fruiting bodies of unprocessed brown and white mushrooms (367.22 ± 14.19 and 266.47 ± 13.38 mg/kg, respectively).

That is 3.67 mg per 10 grams, or 11.01 mg per 30 grams. One needs to take more, but it is more palatable, and more sustainable long-term.

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#16

UPDATE

That was one of the most disgusting things I have ever drunk. Trying to squeeze 4 tablespoons of powder into a single drink results in a thick sludge. Which would have been okay if that sludge was sweet like melted chocolate or salted caramel.

This was NOT the case.

It tasted like I was drinking bitter curry flavoured seaweed.

It was also luminous green!!! OMG

I imagine 1 in a billion humans will find this tasty. I am not one of those 8 people.

Two lessons.

  1. I will only try less powder maybe over two or three drinks.
  2. I will add something sweet. I am thinking Treehalose,

Will update again.

Please, if you have a healthy recipe proposal - I am all ears :slight_smile:

6 Likes
#17

I think I will try mushrooms once I’ve worked my way through this kilogram bag of chlorella :slight_smile:

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#18

Thank you @RapAdmin for alerting me to this compound in Fenugreek.

As I have been open about on this forum, I have Multiple Sclerosis.

Interesting that Trigonelline is also helpful in neurology:

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#19

Often fenugreek seed powder is made into a “tea” by straining it, but who knows how much trigonelline is in the tea, and does it depend on the fineness of the straining? I saw one estimate that a serving of prepared coffee contains about 5mg, but likely that varies by brewing method.

I haven’t found any good source for higher dosage supplementation.

1 Like
#20

Renue by Science has this