#1

Hi Everyone

I would be very grateful indeed for your thoughts about this.

Firstly, please note that this post is about pure uncombusted nicotine on its own without any of the other chemicals that are in cigarettes or vapes.

I recently watched a YouTube video by Thomas DeLauer in which he cautiously suggests that Nicotine might be good for longevity. The video is as follows:

I have also seen the following article that suggests that it may be a good treatment for long covid, ME/CFS and fibromyalgia:

The following two links suggest that nicotine may help with migraines:

https://www.reddit.com/r/migraine/comments/qlegx2/nicotine_aborts_my_migraines_anybody_else/

However, in contrast to the above information, I have also seen various papers that suggest that nicotine on its own can potentially lead the bodyā€™s cells down various cancer pathways.

The following is an example:

I actually suspect that the cancer risk for nicotine is very much dose dependent.

As I understand it (correct me if I am wrong), there are, broadly speaking, two ways in which a person can get cancer which are as follows:

  1. I donā€™t know for certain if this is true but a while ago, I read somewhere (I canā€™t remember where) that everyone actually always has at least a very tiny amount of cancer in them but the body has strong defence and repair mechanisms which are constantly keeping this very tiny amount of cancer under control so that it does not develop into full-blown cancer. This suggests that a person can get full-blown cancer if something goes wrong with their defence and repair mechanisms.

  2. I think the other way a person can get cancer is if something external (for example, a high dose of radiation) causes a too much DNA damage for their defence and repair mechanisms to be able to cope with it.

I might be wrong but if what I have said here is correct then that suggests to me that provided a personā€™s defence and repair mechanisms are in full working order then they are very unlikely to get full-blown cancer from only a very small dose of something potentially carcinogenic.

What do you all think of what I have said so far in this post?

Do you think that a single 7mg 24-hour nicotine patch counts as a ā€œvery small doseā€ in the context of what I have said above?

Has anyone ever got cancer from just a nicotine patch?

Thank you very much.

Kind regards

Tim

4 Likes
#2

You might consider tiptoeing into this minefield with much lower doses using nicotine lozenges. If you are looking for a boost / neurotrophic effect, Iā€™d check out methylene blue.

Iā€™m staying away from nicotine due to dependence effects and Ā½ life that forces you to into withdrawal while you sleep. This is what Iā€™ve heard, plus I donā€™t need it (I use MB).

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#3

Keep in mind, Nicotine is both addictive and poisonous.

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#4

I donā€™t know which emoji to use for an eye roll, but pretend Im putting it here.

#5

ME/CFS is a real condition (unless those afflicted are pretending that they cannot physically move). Vlad Vexler is someone I would unlikely place in ā€œpretendingā€ category who needs to huff O2 and who is laying down most of the time. M.E. - Vlad Vexler

Nicotine can probably be used responsibly (like one time a week), in a very small dose from a patch, as rapid absorption in other forms are more addictive. I would worry about BP increase.

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#6

It is less addictive than caffeine and all such are ā€œpoisonousā€ in doses that are too high.

#7

Given that Parkinsonā€™s is a major old age threat, and nicotine is known to lower the risk substantially, and the testosterone boosting also should be welcomed by many interested in healthspan, I wonder why nicotine is not on a lot of supplement stacks around here. I have a pouch every day also for many other benifits, such as it being a nootropic, some protection against (severity of) viral infections such as covid, and more.

#8

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-36543-8

Imbalances in NAD+ homeostasis have been linked to aging and various diseases. Nicotine, a metabolite of the NAD+ metabolic pathway, has been found to possess anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective properties, yet the underlying molecular mechanisms remained unknown. Here we find that, independent of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, low-dose nicotine can restore the age-related decline of NAMPT activity through SIRT1 binding and subsequent deacetylation of NAMPT, thus increasing NAD+ synthesis. 18F-FDG PET imaging revealed that nicotine is also capable of efficiently inhibiting glucose hypermetabolism in aging male mice. Additionally, nicotine ameliorated cellular energy metabolism disorders and deferred age-related deterioration and cognitive decline by stimulating neurogenesis, inhibiting neuroinflammation, and protecting organs from oxidative stress and telomere shortening. Collectively, these findings provide evidence for a mechanism by which low-dose nicotine can activate NAD+ salvage pathways and improve age-related symptoms.

We found that the activity of NAMPT in mouse tissues gradually decreased with increasing age. After nicotine administration in drinking water (2 Ī¼g/mL) from 6 to 12 months, nicotine significantly restored the NAMPT activity in all the tissues

Mouse daily water intake is about 6 ml. Mouse weight is about .028 kg. Will have to work out the equivalent dose in human beings. But the dose would be small - micrograms (1/1000 mg) per kg.

How to get the small dose? Maybe steep a small amount of chewing tobacco leaf in water, and drink as a tea? How small an amount? Depends on how much nicotine is in chewing tobacco leaf. The minuscule amount would likely not precipitate addiction.

1 Like
#9

You know thatā€™s how most doctors and scientists want to react when you tell them about rapamycin.

Just because we donā€™t know very much about myalgic encephalomyelitis, long Covid, post-viral syndrome, etc, it doesnā€™t mean it does not exits.

3 Likes
#10

Are you just here to troll?
Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances known to man. It is poisonous in small amounts. A single cigarette can kill a small child.

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#11

I would argue that cigarettes are addicting (I wouldnā€™t know) but Iā€™ve used nicotine gum for years and never felt any sort of short or long term addiction. I can go months without it, then use it for a week to study or work and drop it immediately without any craving. Iā€™ve heard similar from others that use nicotine gum. Iā€™ve never seen someone claim nicotine as a solo drug was addicting to them.

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#12

Tobacco is a nightshade plant like potatoes and tomato and they are all poisonous if taken in wrong ways, but they are not as addicting as caffeine!
Your defending mainstream idiocy by calling names like ā€œtrollā€ makes you look realā€¦ not gonna write it. Everybody can for themselves try nicotine and coffeine for a few weeks and then suddenly stop and see which one leads to a headache and cravings. Nicotine does not do half as much as caffeine!

#13

Nicotine does not give addiction. The calming sucking of a cigarette/pipe and the behavior around it (fiddeling something when nervous etc.) is addicting and leads to overconsumption of the involved nicotine and thus a need for it that otherwise would never arise.

#14

@vongehr i honestly canā€™t tell if youā€™re just on the wrong part of the curve or just really ignorant. On permanent ignore either way.

3 Likes
#15

relative to your side on the curve? easy to tell; you are name calling, I am a scientist giving scientific advice, and probably the only one here also going onto 60 yet being usually mistaken for a 27 year old. Writing this with a nicotine pouch in my mouth.

1 Like
#16

Mental health is also something to take into account wrt. longevity. This is sometimes neglected. If youā€™ve ever attended a longevity conference, you might have encountered the occasional longevity enthusiast who strikes you as loony tunes, after a short conversation.

Neuronal Nicotinic Receptor and Psychiatric Disorders: Functional and Behavioral Effects of Nicotine

#17

i have never used tobacco products. But the respones in this thread makes me considering what would happen, if nicotine would be in the ITP program and show life-extending and health-extending properties. It is not totally unlikely. That is a result that would cause such mental havoc in the health communities. Not to mention how the tobacco companies would respond. I can see the headlines.

1 Like
#18

Isnā€™t it the oldest observation when it comes to medication that itā€™s the dose that makes the poison? Would it really be that shocking if a frank poison was actually beneficial at the right dose? Isnā€™t that the whole basis for hormesis?

I think we underestimate peopleā€™s willingness to go where the evidence is. If tomorrow it was conclusively proven that arsenic at the right dose was health promoting, I think youā€™d see people turn on a dime and go for it 100%. We go where the evidence takes us - itā€™s elemental. Doesnā€™t matter what the substance is, or what the history is, or what the cultural associations are - just the facts, maā€™m. No fuss, no muss.

#19

Rational, fact-driven people, like most people here, will consider adapting to and acting on new research, no matter of what substance we face. But to my experience, YouTubers and influencers are not fact-driven, but act on the basis of getting the most clicks and likes.

Some people will not care and ignore new facts. And other people will ā€œthinkā€ without use an analytical skill set to consider the fact that there are differences between a pure substance and a natural, complex source of the substance (Coffee/Caffeine, Tobacco/Nicotine). The main difference comes from coffeeā€™s complex composition. Coffee contains hundreds of compounds besides caffeine. These include polyphenols and other bioactive substances. Pure caffeine lacks these additional compounds. It will take time for new facts to trickle down to the population and generate healthier action.

A populationā€™s behavior is not motivated by scientific facts. The obesity epidemic is an example of that. yes, if arsenic will extend lifespan? Then I am taking it.

And in fact, Arsenic is a very good example of the dose that makes the poison. Arsenic is in use in homeopathic ā€œmedicineā€

Arsenic, in the form of Arsenicum album, is used in homeopathy as a highly diluted remedy derived from arsenic trioxide. Homeopaths prescribe it for conditions like anxiety, digestive disorders (e.g., food poisoning, diarrhea), respiratory issues, and skin ailments.

#20

But nicotine is already known to act on testosterone, virus defense, and brain health (e.g. Parkinsonā€™s) related issues in healthspan extending ways. No need to wait for the ITP.