#1057

Although this in isolation this is weak evidence, relative to the much stronger evidence in placebo-controlled drug trials and mendelian randomization. I think this is of some interest, an observational study of some Japanese centenarians and apoB where the incidence is 10 times higher of apoB <60 mg/dl. But like I said not any evidence anyone should trust.

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#1058

Yes, duration matters. I’ve brought up this point much earlier in this thread. If you go back and read through this thread, you’ll see that I’ve been a main proponent for ApoB as a major causal factor in CVD


#1059

Can you explain the other significant factors other than apoB?

#1060

I’d recommend starting with a PubMed search for a good free review article on molecular pathogenesis/pathophysiology of cardiovascular disease, myocardial infarction and thrombotic stroke.

#1061

That sounds like mechanistic studies which is low on the hierarchy of evidence.

It was you who made the claim, who is supposed to prove it?

Nevermind.

1 Like
#1062

I have a new pet theory. Microbial Burden:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/epdf/10.1073/pnas.1011383107

Healthy people in their 20’s have between 40 and 200 billion bacteria in their blood. Some of them bad, some really bad. Oral are the worst it seems. You also get them from your gut, depending on how much fiber you manage to feed your buddies in the colon and another bunch of factors I won’t bore you with.

These guys start the damage to your blood vessels and apparently there is a tradeoff in your response to the injury. Increasing CRP,fibrin,LDL, all help kill off and clean up after the microbial burden but at the same time they give you a better chance of heart disease.

1 Like
#1064

Waiting for Monday:
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Conversation
Gil Carvalho MD PhD
@NutritionMadeS3
Coming this Monday on Nutrition Made Simple: Red Yeast Rice, phytosterols and other cholesterol-lowering supplements.

Do they work? Are they worth it? Are they safe?

A new trial suggests no supplements are effective over a placebo

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A look at the research and the implications
1:40 PM · Nov 12, 2022
·Twitter Web App

2 Likes
#1065

Yes, the res yeast rice supplements made in the USA would have no effect as the FDA makes them remove the effective ingredient! :frowning:

#1066

I think Gil Carvalho MD Ph.D. is smart enough to take that into account.

We will just have to wait to see what he says. In any case, if U.S. red yeast rice has the effective ingredient removed there is no good reason to buy it or take it.

Of course, we could take almost any natural compound, however ineffective, and promote it as an elixir of health, and up to 40% of people taking it would swear by it due to the placebo expectation effect.

3 Likes
#1067

Consumerlab just did an analysis, and while some brands don’t have any lovastatin, some do. Cholestene has 7.5mg lovastatin per capsule, for instance. I do wonder, however, if the researchers chose one to test that was knowingly or unknowingly low or absent of lovastatin.

2 Likes
#1068

The FDA has issued an edict that lovastatin Monocolin K MUST be removed from red yeast rice supplements due to the fact is is a prescription drug. So any supplement that has lovastatin in the USA is technically illegal. Therefore red yeast rice supplements are useless (or illegal) if they were produced in the USA.

1 Like
#1070

Around 500 mg berberine a day and using more canola oil instead of olive oil reduced my apoB by 24% to 55 mg/dl. I’ve added around 0.8 mg of rosuvastatin three times a week now. There are studies only 1 mg a day reduced LDL-c by around 30%: Effect of rosuvastatin on low-density lipoprotein cholesterol in patients with hypercholesterolemia - PubMed. Ezetimibe also works in lower dosages:
OHbrE2U

“Statins are the most powerful longevity drugs available”:

2 Likes
Berberine Supplement
#1071

Yes, the FDA has been complaining about RYR for decades but hasn’t ordered a RYR product off the market since 1998. It seems RYR manufacturers have been skirting the law by not listing monacolin levels on the label and not making claims about heart disease or cholesterol. So far, it’s worked but of course that could change.

1 Like
#1072

Thanks! Learning that I can block obnoxious users is the first, only, and last useful info I’ve learned from you on this site.

4 Likes
#1073

FWIW

Make your own red yeast rice.

2 Likes
#1074

You may be right. But then how do you know which RYR supplement is useful or useless?

#1075

I have this image of each of you blocking the other. :laughing:

4 Likes
#1076

A membership has been worth every penny of my hard-earned money.

3 Likes
#1077

:laughing: All I did was politely ask (on another thread) where he’s getting his info. Apparently, this blew a brain circuit.

3 Likes
#1078

I wasn’t trying to throw shade on anyone. I thought the symmetry amusing. :smiley:

2 Likes