Having rummaged around a bit on this (I do supplement with omega 3 and am not depressed) I think you are right that omega 3 supplementation causes depression in some people.
It would be a good thing to try to pin down because for some people a certain amount of omega 3 is quite helpful. I did some experimentation a few years ago and noticed a positive difference caused by omega 3 which I was at the time taking twice a week. A while ago I moved to daily supplementation.
3 Likes
adssx
#699
For those interested, evidence is here (VITAL trial + meta-analyses): Omega 3 makes me depressed: why?
DHA seems to be the culprit. It would be great to know which people are susceptible to DHA-induced depression. As of today, trial and error is the only way to know. Iām now taking 2 g pure EPA per day and I think it improved my mood a bit (whereas EPA + DHA made me lethargic).
2 Likes
Its an interesting question. I may review this when I next need to buy Omega 3. OTOH I donāt think I am lethargic or depressed.
1 Like
Jay
#701
garym37, Iāve tried Noopept several times and never found anything subjectively noticeable. For a couple of years now Iāve found Modafinil at 50 mg useful at times, experimenting with methods of taking it: 1) empty stomach 30 minutes before breakfast, 2) with breakfast, and 3) sublingual 30 minutes after breakfast. With breakfast is more subtle, but still effective. I find it most useful with mood and energy if I get active and stay active most of the day. For me, it has a hangover effect hours later that is eased as long as I remain active outdoors. It doesnāt seem to work well without adequate sleep and nutrition or when used too many days in a row and it may make a bad sleep day feel worse. If used for a number of days in a row a washout period of a week or two could be helpful. Ideally I would be able to use it daily, but that doesnāt work for me.
If Iām going on a 10 mile hike and energy level is a bit low sometimes Iāll take 50 mg mid-morning just before I begin the hike, but not unless I feel the need.
For me, itās like coffee (caffeine), but with a half-life of 12 or more hours and with potentially irritating side effects like jitteriness, hangover effects and insomnia. So, itās bit of a double-edged sword. If trying it for the first time I suggest just a few milligrams under the tongue in the early morning on a day with no obligations to see your reactions. Experimentation with small doses at different times can let you see the energy curve effect that works best. You can use a razor blade to cut into quarters and smaller pieces. Different people may react differently.
On a different note related to energy Iām experimenting with Galantamine (Relentless Improvement) 4 mg to 8 mg with breakfast. It seems to improve choline levels in the brain and I think is somewhat beneficial with mental clarity and the feeling of alertness during the day. But, at the same time Iām trying 4 grams glycine + 4 grams NAC in the morning blended with coffee (which can irritate the stomach). I believe Iām noticing more energy and alertness with one or both of these things, but it may just be the coffee ā LOL!
3 Likes
RapMet
#702
Donāt know about depression, but I had put omega 3 supplements in the same bin as Vit A, Vit E, resveratrol and few others, and that is in the garbage bin. I do however think that foods rich in omega 3 are very healthy (i.e. wild salmon).
1 Like
adssx
#703
Iām not sure omega 3 supplementation should go to the bin. There seems to be a case for it but the devil is in the details (EPA or DHA? Dose? Differences based on APOE4 status or baseline serum levels?). See for instance:
4 Likes
RapMet
#704
I believe Omega 3ās are very healthy but never felt good about it in supplement form for some reason, while eating salmon felt amazing. I took it to mean it works better when mixed with protein and other nutrients as opposed to be taken alone as a supplement.
2 Likes
adssx
#705
Yes the quality of the supplements is also an issue. If you can reach the top quintiles for serum DHA and EPA with nutrition only, thatās perfect. Despite eating salmon and sardines frequently, my serum EPA was still low (while DHA was high) so I chose to supplement with pure EPA. Iāll measure again in 4 months to see if I fixed the deficiency.
5 Likes
garym37
#706
Jay, thanks for your detailed post. I save modafinil for special occasions because, while it does perform as advertised, I get all the side effects you mentioned; and they are too unpleasant for regular use. Though I dread adding to my stack, I am going to take a look at Galantamine.
Jay
#708
garym37, Galantamine is still experimental for me. I canāt yet say that Iāll keep it because Iām not sure that it provides enough benefit at 4 mg to 8 mg in the morning. After trying it once in the evening with resulting insomnia, that will not happen again. But, I may try morning and noon to see if there is better benefit twice daily. I think itās providing better alertness in the early to mid-afternoon with that single morning dose, but itās a subtle effect Iāll have to verify by stopping for a few days then restarting a few times to be sure. Then, it would be on to the twice a day trial.
As an extra note, DesertShoresā suggestion for Memantine Hydrochloride And Donepezil combined (Donamem) looks interesting in that Donepezil and Galantamine work in a similar manner. But, I believe galantamine has a half-life of 8 hours and donepezil + memantine more like 60+ hours half-life making donepezil + memantine a once daily pill versus galantamineās probable need for several doses daily. Thatās speculation, but I will investigate Donamem with ChatGPT for MOA, effects and side effects both short-term and long-term. And, as an āextraā extra note I will definitely not discuss this with my doctor because who knows what happens if an insurance company hears youāre experimenting with Alzheimerās drugs. LOL!
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AnUser
#710
Isnāt it good to presume that salmon and sardines have the same effect as DHA supplements since they are high in them?
2 Likes
LukeMV
#711
In every single video Dr. Brad makes, he says ājust because I take a supplement, does not mean that you should too.ā
He never makes supplement recommendations to anyone. Just puts the info out there based on the evidence.
He only made the Microvitamin because he took the ingredients in it himself and wanted to cut down on having to take multiple bottles. The sales have gone towards his Rapamycin study.
There are a lot of snake oil salesmen out there but he is definitely not one of them.
6 Likes
RapMet
#712
Nope, not at all. It is easily tenās or even maybe hundreds of other ingredients/nutrients in Salmon which may (or may not) work synergically with DHA. The supplement does not have such āotherā . nutrients. The reason I make the distinction is because every time I eat salmon my inflammation goes to zero lol. No inflamed joints nor fingers or other body parts. As for Omega3 I have NEVER felt such effect. That is NOT to say it may not be good for other purposes, but I simply had ZERO benefits that I could tell. As such itās been over three years that I stopped taking it and threw away what was left on the bottle. I decided to replace it with one tablespoon of organic EVO each morning, and I can definitely tell a positive impact. I think I made the right choice and NOT looking back.
BTW, I donāt know if reputable or not, but I have run onto couple places/videos/doctors saying that Omega3 supplement are overrated. To each their own, but if something is not doing anything good that I can tell, I scrap it and never look back. There are over 500 substances/supplements out there that one can experiment on. Not willing to waste my time on things I feel ZERO effect from.
1 Like
Beth
#713
On that note, now that Iām starting to take more and more things (you guys are contagious!), I was just saying there must be supplement service to custom make pills so we can cut down on the number of capsules! They all seem to have fillers, so it seems there is room for more of the stuff we want in there. (Perhaps fillers have a useful purpose).
I knew not to bother searching because it seems too good to be true and would be prohibitively expensive, but your response nudged me to google and, by George, it exists!
I guess aside from cost, quality/trust would be the only issue.
Has anyone ever looked at any of these companies? I clicked on a random one called getvitaminlab.com
There is zero chance we could all agree on anything, but now Iām thinking bigger and commissioning our own supplements for our group would get us a nice discount :). We could be our own Brad. (If we could agree on ingredients, Iād actually want to do this!)
3 Likes
adssx
#714
If I say: āI think that investing in company Y could lead to a return on investment of N over the next years based on these papers and thatās why I personally invested in company Y. But just because I incest in company Y, it does not mean you should.ā Then the disclaimer is worthless and intellectually dishonest. If the papers show itās good and I personally invest, why wouldnāt other people do it as well?
The issue is that he does not give reasons why you should NOT take the supplements (or invest if we keep the example).
He should, after each supplement, mention a reason NOT to take it. And then, yes, people would be left with the evidence and would make their own decisions.
For instance, for omega 3, despite dozens of papers showing that it causes depression, he doesnāt mention it. He didnāt answer my email about this.
That being said, Brad Stanfield is definitely not a snake oil salesman; heās great, and heās still one of the best ālongevity influencersā (but the bar is pretty low).
6 Likes
RapMet
#715
interesting. I put my info and came up with this. Mostly good (already take) except Vit A and Calcium which are useless in my opinion. Would been even better if they allowed for self adjustment of the formula.
Your Custom Formula
Add a supplement
Bacopa 45%
mg
50-600 mg
Biotin
mcg
20-10000 mcg
Boron
mg
1-10 mg
Calcium (as Citrate) *
mg
20-2000 mg
Chromium (as Picolinate)
mcg
10-1000 mcg
Copper (as Citrate)
mg
1-5 mg
Folate (as L-5-Methylfolate)
mcg
10-15000 mcg
Ginkgo Biloba (24% Flavones 6% Terpenes)
mg
40-350 mg
Iodine (from Kelp)
mcg
2-1100 mcg
L-Carnitine Tartrate *
mg
1-5000 mg
Lactobacillus rhamnosus
billion CFU
1-20 billion CFU
Magnesium (as Glycinate)
mg
5-350 mg
Manganese (Citrate)
mg
1-10 mg
Molybdenum
mcg
1-2000 mcg
Omega-3 Powder (from Fish Oil) * *
mg
5-2000 mg
Panax Ginseng 5%
mg
1-600 mg
Rhodiola Rosea (3% Rosavins)
mg
5-680 mg
Selenium (as L-Selenomethionine)
mcg
10-400 mcg
Siberian Ginseng 0.8%
mg
1-1200 mg
Trace Minerals
mg
10-900 mg
Turmeric Root PE 95% Curcumins *
mg
5-3000 mg
Vegan Vitamin D3 (as VegD3Ā®)
mcg
2-250 mcg
Vitamin A (as Acetate)
mcg
30-3000 mcg
Vitamin B1 (as Thiamine HCl)
mg
1-500 mg
Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin)
mcg
3-5000 mcg
Vitamin B2 (as Riboflavin-5ā-Phosphate)
mg
1-200 mg
Vitamin B3 (as Niacinamide)
mg
1-500 mg
Vitamin B5 (as Calcium Pantothenate)
mg
1-1000 mg
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal-5ā-Phosphate)
mg
1-100 mg
Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid)
mg
15-2000 mg
Vitamin D3 (as Cholecalciferol)
mcg
2-250 mcg
Zinc (as Citrate)
mg
1-40 mg
1 Like
Beth
#716
I did find a place to adjust your dose.
Did you choose ābuild my own formulaā
This is what it looked like
Sigh, my osteoporosis has gotten worse, so Iāve been directed to start taking calcium, did I mention sigh?
I realize most of you probably have no need.
3 Likes
AnUser
#717
So itās basically only a ānot financial adviceā or ānot medical adviceā disclaimer for his supplement. He doesnāt want to get sued because someone starts popping his supplement then attributing whatever happens to them to it, Iād guess.
1 Like
RapMet
#718
about 99% of people donāt need calcium (or get enough through food) plus if taking too much it throws off the balance of other minerals. Magnesium is the new Calcium for bones. I would only take Calcium, Vit A, Vit E if my blood work shows deficient. Otherwise, they are snake oil.
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